Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. SO here's my question. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. Expansion Valve. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. 3 ounces? If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. Its cylinders are colored white. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. I think the way to go here is1. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. Can I use the one for the R-12? R134a vs R12 refrigerant? If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. Quick View. The smoking question & vent airflow indicate that the evaporator is fairly clean - and you are aware of the importance of that.The heater valve stops the flow, but there is always some conduction heating. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? 5. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. B. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. How is 1234yf different from . It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. 5) A/C System Failure. R134a. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. Depending on which circuit diagram fits your car (cough, no vin list exists) you have either one or two switches controlling the aux fan. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. I used a full can of evap cleaner. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. I know this is bad, etc, and deposits on the metal can act as insulators. I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. Add to cart. Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. Hope this helps. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. Temp switch works the aux fan. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. This can be very very expensive. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. Answer: OK, I'll bite. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . . #13. What effect would it have on performance, if any? hardly noticable. So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. . AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? That's a lot isn't it? So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? The exact amount will vary with each car. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. Yep, definately not a meat locker. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. Talk about what services you provide. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. I have the original (R12) style expansion valve in the Maverick AC system. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. had writing on the side that said R134a. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . But R22 is almost equally damaging. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. The only material difference between automotive A/C and a window A/C unit or refrigerator is that in the home application, the components are all inside the same rectangular box, but in the automotive application, the components are distributed throughout the car. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. Biggest you can fit in there is best. 3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. maintain the A/C of older cars. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: Chemistry The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. Hmmmm. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. Blows pretty hard on full. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed. This is the part that controls the system pressures. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all?

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