I don't know if the Klebolds had any inkling at all, but I really don't get the Harrises. [quote]You have to ignore a whole lot of what is wrong with society to limit it to a bogus discussion about how some people have "brains wired differently." After I wrote a column a few weeks ago about the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School, I got e-mail from Tom Klebold, the father of Dylan Klebold, one of the . This page is focused on the tragedy as well as its perpetrators so we can try to better understand the psychology and motives behind this horrific event. The deadliest school shooting in the United States was the Virginia Tech massacre, with 33 fatalities and 23 injuries. She behaves as if it is normal, as if she doesn't even hear it. ERIC AND DYLAN 4 LIFE! The school shooting took place on April 20, 1999 at . While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. It is very difficult to assign causality in cases like this. . Psycrotrenic, charter member of the International Reb&Vodka fan club. COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL massacre - WikiVidi Documentary. "So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. I think that even I have sustained some slight rewiring from that, though not anywhere *near* to the extent of my brother's. She is the author of A Mother's Reckoning, a book about the signs she missed of Dylan's mental state. armed with one 10-shot hi-point model 995 carbine rifle, one intratec ab-10 (tec-9) pistol, two savage 12-gauge shotguns, and as many as . I think we can value Sue's words more than Dylan's words in this one. 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But they confess that in the main, they have no explanation. "Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit". Dylan kept talking about college, about his future. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. x93Thatx94 happened to x93themx94 because they were bad parents, we could tell ourselves. . Sorry if I can't be interested in something without arousing your ire. "In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.". Dylan is wearing a black baseball cap on backward, exposing a "B" embroidered in white on the back of the hat - the Boston Red Sox logo. Andreas Lubitz, Adam Lanza, Dylan Klebold and Anders Breivik (from left to right) On the second . Dylan was giddy and beaming, all cleaned up for once. How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy? We didnt realize it until after the end, Tom Klebold said. It may have hurt him. Indeed, R96. Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. They cry innocence and ignorance, when I know they were anything BUT. Ken Caryl Middle, where he met Dylan Klebold. Maybe I'm just feeling too knowledgeable having been re-reading Steve Pinker's "How The Mind Works" recently. Coni Sanders, whose father, Dave Sanders, a . No, they hated the gay boys almost as much as they hated the jocks. VOTN, they used to think blood-letting and reading the bumps on people's head was science, too. She didn't do anything that would be perceived as spying. . Klebold and Harris were in a juvenile diversion program for breaking into a van and stealing tools and other items in January 1998. [quote]Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. As much as it sucked I knew deep down that it was just a stage and that it wasn't real. (p. 311-312) Synthesizing the many factors, its argued that most school shooters have a history of social rejection, along with either psychological problems, an interest in weapons, and/or a fascination with death (p. 314). I still think it's easy to place blame on the parents within the context of what happened, but tons of kids are little miscreant assholes who commit petty shit like Eric & Dylan were doing. Bedwetting, firesetting and cruelty to animals. We've hardly seen him & attempts to engage him have been futile. Maybe that's what I find so scary about the whole thing, that there are people who walk around, every day, and are completely lacking in everything that I thinks makes us human. But there isn't one thing. April 20, 2009 6:01 PM. Stop doing that." it was probably dylan just being a snarky and sardonic person if the relationship had ever crumbled, or a classic father/son conflict. Or if they are, it's not because they're running amok in the store. Just know I'm going to a better place. These people do have emotions. Klebold's body was . Wayne worked as a transport pilot for the United States Air Force, while . Her son's name became famous when in 1999 he became one of two direct perpetrators of the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history. How often did they fix things up, was he emotionally available for Dylan? (The OP was looking for books on personality mirroring and other techniques sociopaths use). ", Eric "If only we would have searched their room. I read recently that neither set of parents ever spoke publicly or to the media. comes from the shittiest of shitty, lazy parent(s). Posted February 7, 2011. Dylan and Robyn had fun. He was fiercely independent, insisting his mother teach him how to bathe himself at the age of 5 or 6, and how to do his own laundry at age 10. Even still, he seemed happy and had a handful of close friends. I found this thred on accident and had to comment. I want you to have that fly CD. Harris and Klebold met at Ken Caryl Middle School during their seventh grade year. r109 is quick to dismiss r108 as a "troll". VOTN, I have Cullen's book but have not yet started it. So no, nothing in the gifted program could have helped this kid. They opened fire on students and teachers at Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado, on the Nazi leader's birthday in 1999, killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 23 people before taking their own lives. It would drive me insane to have my kids behave like that, but some people are utterly oblivious to the cacaphony and strife being caused by their children. Teachers did nothing. Sue is from a prominent Jewish community . No scientist knows this absolutely. You have no right to disrupt someone else's place of business. By the time of the shooting, facing his intense feelings of alienation, she says his journals show the only emotions Dylan could connect to were anger and hopelessness. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. Kids do know about their frineds. we only know so much and there have probably been incidents we dont know about. When someone is in a store, that is not their own private property. Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I felt I was a good mom'. A few weeks ago, I reviewed Sue Klebolds memoir A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy, about her experience as the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the Columbine High School shooters. Dylan Klebold Character Analysis. And he's not pulling a lot of punches about the media saturation either, and doesn't let the Rocky off the hook. His parents were both born in Colorado but while he was working in the Air Force as a transport pilot, Wayne Harris held 11 . In April 1981, Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas. Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, on April 9, 1981. In a story for Sundays editions of The Post, Lozow related the first moments after the Klebolds learned of the shooting. . This is true. "Susan said, came when somebody said, "I forgive you for what you've done." As a . ", Dylan: "They gave me my fucking life. The Klebolds said their son was set off by the toxic culture of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated. When I moved out on my own I gained the privacy afforded to adults. Sorry. In their first interview since the Columbine High School massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel no need be forgiven and didnt realize their son was beyond hope until after he was dead. The testimony people point out of a co-worker stating Dylan didnt get on with his father is unreliable as he couldve been having a teenage moan or joining in one time right up to regular bitterly disparaging remarks and reasons why. Virginia Tech. Eric, on the other hand, was a psychopath, Cullen concludes, and he spends 400 pages convincingly making his case. School shooters often show little attachment to their school. It is also true that environmental stimuli can make the difference between a kid with "problems" and a kid who becomes a "monster." Dylan also writes in his journal that. In Cub Scouts, he was a bright, dedicated boy who worked hard for his badges. Any pix of the monster creators? I believe it was either a sibling or playmates. Empathy; not so much. I am with R14 and 15. Looking back on the textbooks suggested traits of school shooters, weve already seen above how Dylan does actually map onto many of them. Dylan ended the shooting which saw 13 . additionally, dylan was definitely naturally shy. Criminal behavior: a psychological approach. So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy. She hyped it up as a must see and an insight to what really happened. Klebold, S. (2016). Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. Eric's also wearing a plaid shirt that's either dark blue or black with white, with a white t-shirt on underneath. It didn't seem to slow down the ordinary media train. It was very easy to read despite being a difficult topic. I cannot have my uzzer patrons being upset. Is that correct? They haff come here to haff a nice dinner und a nice time. Not only had Dylan experienced bullying in school, his school fit some of the factors that meant it was most at risk for a shooting by ignoring certain behaviors and otherwise unevenly enforcing the rules. psycho school, nasty students, bullshit teachers, ignorant parents, hormones, bullying, rage. I had to fight for their basic rights because allegedly educated teachers thought things like "retards are dangerous" and "retards should be kept away from the good kids". I can handle them "spending too much time on the killers", but unfortunately I recognize there are too many whackjobs in this country who would just see it as glorification. As his father's career pulled him out of schools and away from friends leaving Plattsburgh, New York in 1993 for Colorado Harris increasingly retreated into the computer and . FULL DOCO - PT 2 OF 3, 2. There are also certain traits that lead to a school itself being more or less at risk for a shooting event: an inflexible culture, inequitable discipline, tolerance for disrespectful behavior, and a code of silence (p. 315). I can't help it. For a couple reasons. The narrator seemed to revel in the graphic violence he was depicting, but it was the final passage that was particularly disturbing, where Dylan conveyed unabashed awe and . Or, as Eric himself said, quoting Shakespeare, in the farewell video he left for his parents: x93Good wombs have borne bad sons.x94. Denver area Jews, meanwhile, have expressed discomfort at the emphasis being paid to Klebold's alleged Jewishness. I couldn't put the book down, and even though I thought I knew the ending of the story, or at least most of it, I have to admit, the last couple of chapters, specifically the one detailing the Basement Tapes, and the one about what had happened leading up to Harris and Klebold committing suicide were fucking frightening. Gotta go. Teachers have no training in mental disorders or warning signs. . According to a report in the Denver Rocky Mountain News, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office was supplied with evidence a year ago that "Eric . And although there was never anything we could do to put him away, so to speak, before he hurt someone, my mother would *never* claim in an aftermath that she had no idea of his mental state or his comings and goings or that she didn't know what made him that way. Ed Berg, a former business associate who has talked to Tom Klebold since the shootings, said Dylan's father has come to grips with the boy's crime. Thats Something that stands out about Dylan anyway, the Lack of Emotion regarding his parents. . Were not qualified to sort this out. He felt a need to be in control. The interview is set to air on "20/20" this Friday, coinciding with . Parenting is the ultimate denial of responsibility because it is always the OTHER PARENT'S FAULT. Sue acknowledges that before Columbine, she would have reacted to news of some horrific act by wondering what that persons parents must have been like to allow someone to turn out like that. COLUMBINE, pisode 3 : l'impact sur la socit, 3. Posted 3 years ago I think it is really interesting to think about the many things that lead someone to commit a school shooting. I'm not doubting what you're saying, and if you've got any insight, I'd love to hear it, but short of actually going in and manually rewiring neurons, it just seems like the best case scenario would be non-destructive analytical automaton. This week, one of them, Sue Klebold mother of shooter Dylan Klebold - breaks the silence with ABC's Diane Sawyer. Dylans parents were hands-on parents who limited the intake of television and sugary cereals. Tonight, an interview with Sue Klebold, Dylan's mother, is set to air on the ABC news-magazine . : apparently tom was really hurt when 4/20 happened and grieved heavily because he felt like him and dylan were best friends, and had especially gotten closer in the months prior. Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. OP, I agree with you. Eric . He's wearing a plaid shirt, either dark blue or black with white; the shirt's untucked. Similiarly if a child is screaming at playmates and/or siblings and will not stop, you have to move in and take control of the situation. Sue Klebold. They are rare. Dylan says people will note the date and time when watching it. By. They always have, and unless we can change it (which might be very "Pandora") they always will. Haven't most of you been able to conceal your homosexuality from your family for a number of years? Yet later, he sees them more as zombiestrickier though andmore manipulative. To develop coping skills. I don't think I can categorize Dylan's relationship with his parents as bad or good, because Dylan was incredibly disturbed teen and clearly had a skewed perception of reality. . The mother of Columbine killer Dylan Klebold says she thinks every day about the people her . Dylan Bennett Klebold. The recruiter cold-called him. ", "If they had even one shred of decency they would have taken full responsibility for creating and shaping and not monitoring these monsters.". By Eun Kyung Kim. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. Are any of Robert Hare's books of interest, if you know? He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. His parents didnt understand the full extent of it, but high school wasnt turning out to be a kind place for him. I also agree with R7. The Harrises moved away almost immediately. I don't believe that Tom and Sue were annoying parents. I'm a true follower of Reb &VoDka. He became more paranoid, forcing them all to flee a McDonalds because he believed a group of teens on the other side of the store were laughing at him. Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . But a new book, x93Columbine,x94 by Dave Cullen, reviews every bit of evidence about the shooting short of the parentsx92 firsthand accounts x97 25,000 pages of documents, including videotapes and journals of the killers x97 all of which point to the same chilling conclusion as the Carneal depositions: it is entirely possible for x93goodx94 parents to raise a murderer. This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain. From many angles, Dylan was the average kid any parent would want. I don't think it's fair to either demonize or absolve them, but from studies of psychopathy, even the best parenting can't make that be turned off. One young doctor said, "I don't know if you can teach compassion, but you surely can teach the opposite! I can't remember. His father Wayne was an Air force pilot, his mother Kathy was a homemaker and his brother Kevin earned a masters degree and married. The bombing was planned for April 19th, to coincide with the Oklahoma bombing, but for some reason, they were set back to the 20th. When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylans trench coat, which he couldnt find, Lozow said. Well, Mrs. Klebold is quite the victim, isn't she? Hi Alison, By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. They will live on forever !!!!!!!! [quote]I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. It would be satisfying to blame the parents. "They believe that what they call the "toxic culture" of the school the worship of jocks and the tolerance of bullying is the primary force that set Dylan off. I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.. Eric David Harris and Dylan Bennet Klebold were a pair of school shooters, bombers, and mass murderers responsible for the April 20, 1999 Columbine High School Massacre in Columbine, Colorado, which killed thirteen people and wounded 21 others before ending with both of their suicides. The real tragedy of Columbine isn't the deaths, it's the failure to work to change our culture (from bullying to gun control) in the aftermath. They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them. Hell, Klebold and a bunch of their friends went to the prom the weekend before the killings. Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. Sue and her husband were vehemently opposed, but Dylan still asked for a gun for Christmas his final year. A Further Examination: Sue Klebolds case study of her son, Dylan Klebold, Trauma and Suicide within Law Enforcement, Mental Health and Mass Murders: The Connection between Trauma and School Shootings, Mental Health Treatment in Correctional Facilities, Forensic Behavior Analysis: Self Care in the CJ Field, Trauma in Female Juvenile Inmates and Delinquents. He went to his senior prom and based on his journal had a wonderful time, and was invested in his future to such an extent that he chose a college and made a trip out to Arizona to look at dorm rooms with his father. For happy, easy-to-raise, and successful kids like him, it was easy to fly under their parents radar precisely because they were the shiny pennies, hiding the terrible pain they were in from their parents as capably as they did everything else (p. 65). "In the very . I'm not saying that there's no guilt, no responsibility, because no matter how our brains are wired, we're all creatures of free will and able to make moral choices, but to lay everything at the feet of society, or the parents, or the school, is way, way too simple. Weren't they in a small group of rebellious kids? Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the gunman, had been bullied for several years prior to the massacre. When asked about Dylan's behavior, Byron indicated that Dylan appeared to be somewhat detached and he went on to explain that as a "pissed off teenager." Byron went on to state that Dylan gave no indication to believe that something like this was going to occur. Good-bye. But you also can't argue with success. Thank you! ", Eric: (eventually) "That's it. "Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting". I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy. The pair . That doesn't make them monsters. I think Tom had high expectations of Dylan and may have been a little bit of a nag, but in these regards he wasn't much different than a lot of parents. I just don't get it. Klebold attended the high . Now everybody expects the schools to fix everything for them. I was just worried Dylan was unhappy (p. 227). However, it is my understanding from reviews that he contends the boys actually had a circle of friends and were, in fact, popular within that group. I think he was broken over the loss of his son, and wants to remember the boy Dylan was and not the murder he became? Sue received a number of letters from people whod gone to Columbine who were more surprised that a shooting hadnt happened sooner than that one had happened at all. Sue Klebold decided to speak up now because she wants to tell other parents the signs she missed and what she would do differently. If there is a hell, they are there, burning. What a twat. How can that not bother you? The prom was the standard affair. It profiles Sue Klebold, Dylan Klebold's mother, and examines what lessons Americans should take away from the tragedy. The next deadliest school shooting (based on fatalities) was the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, with 27 fatalities. The people who run gifted programs are often special ed teachers who just got assigned that particular duty, and have the attitude that being smart is its own reward. In any case, teenagers can be quite unfair to their parents. He overslept and missed a class and was sleeping when I got home. The two would . Dylan Klebold (Dylan Bennet Klebold) was born on 11 September, 1981 in Lakewood, Colorado, United States, is a 20th century American mass murderers. On a calendar entry dated the day of the attack, April 20, the time 11:10 is written across the top an approximate reference to when Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold pulled out their weapons . Harris's father erroneously stated that his son was "a member of what they call the Trenchcoat Mafia" in a 9-1-1 call he made on April 20, 1999. She hyped it up as a must see and an insight to what really happened. I think it's really odd that Tom Said Dylan was His best friend and Dylan Kind of didn't seem to care at all about his dadso one of them Had a really wrong perception. Byron Klebold is Dylan's older brother - photo of him at link. 5 feet 6.5 inches tall, 135-140 pounds. Brooks Brown, now 31 years-old was a senior at Columbine during what was considered to be the worst school shooting in U.S. history. Yes, it's the fifth anniversary of when you met your partner and you go out to dinner and somebody's child is relentlessly screaming throughout dinner that's fine. Pais was a student at Miami Beach High School who was reportedly obsessed with the school shooting at Columbine, the high school where 13 people were shot and killed 20 years ago. By David Brooks. When I hear this "We never knew a thing was wrong with our child!" The parents of Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, remained in seclusion Wednesday as a global media horde encamped at their houses after the murderous rampage Tuesday at Columbine High School. Really just the gerden variety sociopath stuff? AAron Ontiveroz/the Denver Post via Getty Images It is absolutely the parents vault. Ridiculous. I think you did an excellent job with this blog post. Eric also said he had purposefully not been spending much time with his family so there wouldn't be much "bonding" leading up to April 20 since that would make it harder to do. It's far more complicated than a matter of discipline. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I remember Oprah had teachers and students from Columbine on her show within a month of the event. Dylan's mother, Sue Klebold, confirmed to radio host Terry Gross on "Fresh Air" Tuesday that she is Jewish, and her now ex-husband, Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . Hers was a love as dark and true, as embracing and self-abnegating, as Cordelia's. On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, seniors at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., placed . YOU SHOULD NOT STOP ME FROM EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!! Everyone ones there to be one systemic cause, one thing that failed, to point to and say "there, that's why this happened." (Video) My son was a Columbine shooter. Sue Klebold. But 936 pages of evidence taken from the killers' homes and cars were released by the Jefferson County Sheriff's office on Thursday, and a notebook kept by Eric's father . Don't believe me? I read a book about young doctors and they were discussing whether you can teach compassion. All the bullying stuff is bullshit. This is my story | Sue Klebold, (Video) Sue Klebold: My life as the mother of a Columbine killer (EXCLUSIVE) - BBC Newsnight, (Video) Chris Morris friend of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, (Video) COLUMBINE SHOOTER: DYLAN KLEBOLD'S MOTHER GIVES FIRST TV INTERVIEW !

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